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This was a group I tried to start when I first began the RMSG web site back in '96-97. I may try again in the future, if there is any interest... But for now, this is just nostalgia.

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THE CENTER FOR SELF-RELIANCE STUDIES
This is the CSRS FAQ Version 1.0      What Are the Goals of RMSG?
What is Required For Membership?      Why Should I Join?
What If I Want to Leave the Group?       Cost & Fee Usage (How Much & What For?)
What About My Family & Friends?       What About New Members?
What About Firearms?       What About Race & Religion?
When Will the Group Be Formed?       What Can I Use The Site For?
Who the Heck Is Meg Raven?       Where Will The Site Be Located?
On Government Ordered Disbandment       Submit More Questions for the FAQ

What Are The Goals Of CSRS?

The Center for Self-Reliance Studies has several major purposes, but paramount is the successful negotiation of a major catastrophe resulting in a partial or complete breakdown of civilized structure. A "successful negotiation" requires that all members survive the event relatively intact while maintaining our dignity, humanity, technology, and the ability to re-establish an acceptable level of civilization and order to our lives. None of us relish the idea of a return to the Dark Ages, the loss of knowledge, or a Mad Max scenario where "survival of the fittest" simply means survival of the most savage.

Toward this end, we hope to gather a group of like-minded individuals from all walks of life who are determined to see that a major setback is not a permanent one - or even a long term setback.

We hope to establish a central repository of knowledge (hardcopy and electronic libraries) and equipment enabling our members to sustain themselves, together, in relative comfort during and after an event, with the capability of expanding mere survival into a civilized existence in the least amount of time with the least amount of physical and psychological trauma.

RMSG plans include the selection and purchase of a tract of land in a fairly remote and feasibly defensible area which is still accessible, in normal times, to all members. This site will be utilized by members for mutual training and support, storage of food, medical and other support equipment, educational facilities for summer school and camp retreats, and a technical training center for advanced education and cross training in various fields. This site will also maintain facilities for research and development of advanced survival tools and techniques as well as the development of self-reliant technology and techniques that may be incorporated into the daily lifestyle of any individual or community in good times or bad.

An equally important aspect of RMSG is the introduction of members to others who maintain a similar life ethic. In this modern world it is becoming increasingly difficult to find folks who believe that independence means more than being able to buy or talk your way out of any situation. People who believe that industriousness and hard work are neither bad words nor futile gestures. We hope and anticipate that membership will not only provide a sense (as well as the reality) of security, but a source for life-long friendships and acquaintances among philosophical equals. We don't expect or intend for all members to think and act the same regarding all aspects of life, but that our philosophy of individualism, self-reliance, self-responsibility and self-determination provide an equal and solid foundation for the integration of similar values, morals and goals.

The secondary goals of the CSRS will be to provide the rest of the world with the life-enhancing information our members garner from the project. Our participation in this project will cover all aspects of cutting edge and proven past methods self-reliant technologies. By producing and sharing this information with the rest of the world through an internet presence, books, pamphlets, magazines and videos, it is hoped that the financial developmental and maintenance requirements will be internalized within the corporate structure, resulting in substantial reduction of capital requirements from the individual members themselves.

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Why Should I Join?

Survival is hard work, physically and psychologically demanding, and requires constant vigilance, a great deal of foresight, innumerable skills, and a hefty dose of good luck. Civilized survival is all but impossible for individuals or small groups. The basics of water, food, shelter (including defense) and basic medical knowledge or support may, indeed, be sustainable at a primitive level, but is tenuous, at best. The larger the group, the greater the division of labor and the more likely that one or more members will hold that key bit of knowledge that determines or improves the survival potential for all.

With 270+ million people in our nation alone, food supplies - including hunting and foraging - are going to be quickly depleted [that is, in the event of a disaster large enough to disrupt supply routes]. Once a saturation point is reached, things may become increasingly nasty. A larger group is more capable of stockpiling, producing, developing, conserving, and protecting resources. A larger, organized, group can do this quicker, cheaper, and more efficiently than individuals or smaller groups.

Survival preparations can be expensive. Many things must be excluded by the individual or small groups as they are not cost effective or financially attainable. A large group can develop or purchase facilities and equipment, with little financial strain to any one individual, which may only be dreamed of and wished for by smaller groups. Medical, power and communications facilities and equipment for stand-alone use, being excellent examples.

A larger group can provide educational, recreational, and social benefits that simple could not exist in a smaller group. A smaller group must be constantly on guard, whereas a larger group can afford a period of respite to individuals on a rotating basis. The value of morale and psychological well-being must not be underestimated. When your whole world is falling apart around you, it is imperative that you have some way of dealing with and minimizing or releasing stress.

Finally (though neither exhaustively or conclusively), in the happy event that we never experience a scenario for which we are preparing, we won't feel like total fools or that we have wasted our money and efforts. We'll have established a network of friends, a support group, educational benefits, and a great vacation spot that we never have to worry about being too crowded, too expensive, or filled with too many obnoxious or irresponsible individuals to bother with. Our efforts to educate the rest of the world on self-reliant lifestyles and technologies may even have the effect of lessening or averting future catastrophes - at least, of a a man-made variety.

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What is Required For Membership?

Aside from the monetary aspects, discussed elsewhere, Membership requires certain lifestyle attributes that may be exclusionary. The purpose of this group is not simply to survive, but to survive in relative comfort and peace of mind. This requires selective admission based upon attitudes, values and individual ethics. Without a doubt, they are biased. I don't know about you, but as far as I am concerned, if I am going to go through hell with someone, I am going to want to like them, trust them and be able to count on them - and they should be able to do the same concerning me.

Ideological incompatibility can destroy a group faster than incomplete preparations or the initial lack of knowledge, skill and ability. Knowledge, skill, ability and preparations can be acquired along the way, but the formation of attitudes and morals, values and motivation, is the culmination and expression of a lifetime of experience and implementation. It is highly unlikely that an individual will change their basic principles of existence - for any reason - once they are firmly implanted upon their psyche. Not impossible, perhaps, but highly unlikely.

With this in mind, there are certain qualities which each member should have, hold dear, and strive to maintain. Chief among these are:

SELF RESPECT:
A person who does not respect themselves, cannot respect anything or anyone else. It is imperative that we recognize the value each of us has as a human being and a member of society. Those who do not respect or value themselves have a tendency to be self-destructive and inattentive to the needs of their body and mind. Self-destructive behavior is not a singular event contained within the individual, but rather a progressive event - affecting and infecting all who come in contact with the individual and compounding with each irrational act. Those who lack self respect neither recognize, nor particularly care, about the effect they have upon others. They are a physical and psychological danger to themselves and any group with which they associate.

We cannot all be athletes and geniuses, and certainly all of us have moments of self doubt and regret. Self respect does not mean that we must view ourselves as Supermen, but that we recognize our faults and accept them as temporary obstacles to be conquered. It means that we are continually trying to improve ourselves because we love ourselves, our families, our friends, and life in general. Without self respect, life becomes a purposeless and meaningless exercise in futility.

Self respect leads to the next quality that all members should have:

SELF RESPONSIBILITY:
A self responsible individual not only accepts, but demands personal accountability for their actions and the consequences of their actions. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes from time to time. The self responsible person owns up to their errors and immediately initiates actions to reduce and correct them. A self responsible person does not place blame or attempt to shift the burden of responsibility for any circumstance they find themselves in, but accepts the challenge to improve upon any situation by their own initiative. It is equally important to note that "inaction" is simply the avoidance of action. Avoidance is an action, and the self responsible person accepts the consequences of a failure to act, where action is called for.

Self responsibility, therefore, requires that members possess the following quality, as well:

SELF DETERMINATION:
This is more than the freedom to choose a particular action or state of your own free will. It is the determination to see to it that you are in control of your destiny to the limits of your ability. It incorporates the concepts of self motivation and independence in thought and action. It means that you take the initiative to determine the outcome of your life and the circumstances and surroundings that make up your life. You do not leave things to chance, or fate, when a more certain alternative exists through rational thought or action. You refuse the inevitability of events through decisive and deliberate action in regards to yourself and your personal and immediate surroundings.

Because you are self responsible, you always try to do the very best that you can at anything you do - be it washing windows or performing delicate surgery. The task is not limited in importance to you simply because it is a non-critical one. All tasks require the same attention to detail and natural diligence to see that they are completed correctly and efficiently.

Self determination also means that, while you may be open to suggestion, you always weigh the merits of any argument based upon personal knowledge and experience, and make up your own mind. You are a self-thinker, who cannot be cajoled or persuaded into participating or believing in anything that you feel is wrong. You do not compromise on your personal values, morals, or ethics simply because a majority of contrary opinion holders surround you. You are not a part of "the herd" or "the flock." You are an independent, rational and logical human being fully capable of proper discernment and judgment. However, this implies that you are as honest and judgmental with (and of) yourself, as well as others.

Un-Common Sense:
Voltaire, in his "Dictionnaire Philosophique [1764]" stated that "Common sense is not so common." So what we are looking for is those possessed of uncommon sense. Folks with the ability to naturally come to logical, rational, and proper conclusions to the exigencies of the day. This is perhaps equivalent to simply knowing what is right and what is wrong, without having to deliberate over it. The common sense approach to things is usually (not always) quite obvious, but requires a rational value system.

What is a rational value system? A rational value system is one which holds man's LIFE as the standard for all successive values, and each individual's own life as the ethical purpose of that individual. We realize that our individual lives are all that we will ever experience for ourselves and that each action we take has a positive or negative effect upon ourselves. We further recognize that our actions have an equal effect upon others and that a negative effect upon others is the same as a negative effect upon ourselves.

This is not a call to altruism or pacifism. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. Both of these misguided concepts are negative effects placed upon us by others and should be refused. We cannot save the world (or ourselves) by trying to save the world or refusing to defend ourselves. If we aid someone, we do so for OUR BENEFIT - not theirs. There is a profound difference, if you think about it. If we evade confrontation, we do so - not because we are unwilling to fight - but because to fight will result in the elimination or reduction of that standard of value - our lives. We will fight if there is no alternative but to surrender our will, our freedom, to an aggressive and dominant entity, but it is wiser to avoid or evade confrontation than to resort to or seek it out.

Lessons Learned:

The initial attempt at formation of this group provided a great deal of insight on the difficulties involved in bringing the right kind of people together who are capable of acting in a concerted effort towards a common goal. Petty arguments over religious or academic beliefs, suspicion and paranoia, politics and organizational/administrative methods erupted on a frequent basis.

This organization will not tolerate or accept individuals displaying (initially or consequentially) the following traits:

Religious intolerance:
The inability to accept another member because they worship a God of a different name or nature - or no God at all. Nor any member who cannot accept another member who conducts their public life in a socially acceptable manner while their PRIVATE life differs from the views or morals of others. A PRIVATE lifestyle, kept private (assuming it is not illegal), is nobody else's business!
Academic Intolerance:
Intelligence has very little to do with the amount of academic instruction or accreditation a person has to show. Nor is it a function of academic skills. Intelligence is the ability to think and to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations. It does not require a degree or formal instruction and has little correlation with any desire or ability to function in an academic setting. This type of discrimination is particularly abhorrent since it is usually practiced only by those who should have the intelligence to know better.
Paranoid Tendencies:
We get alot of folks with this particular hang-up. Many of them do not even realize or consider themselves to fall into this group. Before applying to CSRS, carefully consider whether or not you are capable of operating in an open, productive, and beneficial association.

The CSRS may consider such catastrophes as comet and asteroid strikes, tidal waves and floods, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, wars and civil unrest, economic or social collapse, but we neither dwell on them nor expect them to be unavoidable or imminent!!!

The CSRS group is not concerned with the government or any other private or public organization monitoring or interfering with our project. We are not hiding or running from or subverting anyone or anything. We maintain and distribute member lists and email addresses among fellow members and will be holding regular on line and face to face meetings with each other. Each member is taken by all other members at face value until their actions prove otherwise. We do not use PGP encryption, secret oaths or handshakes, subterfuge or misdirection.
Supernatural & Extraterrestrial Concerns:
The CSRS is not particularly concerned with angels or aliens or prophets or prophesies. We have enough to deal with in considering natural and man-made events without having to get mired in the supernatural.

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Cost & Fee Usage (How Much & What For?)

At the moment, membership is free. The initial fees will be determined by the (total and ancillary) purchase price of the selected site, divided by the number of primary members. Each member will pay an equal share. Additional fees for tax maintenance and site upgrades (including approved contract work) will produce the variable annual membership fees. If we do a lot of work on the site requiring payment for goods or services, the annual fee will be greater. If we don't, it will be less.

The point is, few of us can afford (financially) to do much of anything by ourselves, save preparations for food and clothing. Together, we can share the expense for technologically advanced equipment and supplies that we could only wish for as a solo survivalist. For instance, a $20k MRI or X-ray machine (or a well-stocked delivery/prenatal care room) would be unthinkable for an individual, yet could mean the difference between life and death. By spreading the cost among 500 members, each only needs to pay $40.00 for unlimited use! (Hopefully one of us will know how to run the damned thing). And the same goes to air/water filtration systems, power generation, advanced shelters, farm and garden facilities, education and research, etc. The list is endless - our pocket books aren't.

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What About New Members?

New members may be added to the group from time to time, provided they meet the same qualities and characteristics of the rest of the group. Once the land is already purchased, they will have to "buy in" to the existing land and any improvements. Their "buy-in" fee will reflect the additional sums that existing members have spent for base membership and improvements (not taxes, which are basically a use fee) using the following formula.

Suppose that we have 500 members who each paid $400 for the site and an additional $300 each for a ton of improvements ($150,000 worth!). Each existing member has, therefore, paid $700, to date. The sum total paid by the group is $200,000 + $150,000, or $350,000.

Now 20 more members want to buy in to the group. This brings our membership up to 520. We divide the expenses of $350k by the 520 members for an equal share of $673.08, which will be the new members cost to join the group.

The existing members, however, have each paid $26.92 more, already. So they have to be reimbursed. Twenty new members at $673.08 apiece equals $13,461.60. Divide this by 500 and we get $26.9232. (It leaves a surplus of 500 x 0.0032, or $1.60, which will be applied to the taxes before the next annual membership fee is assessed.) This keeps every member on an equal financial footing, regarding the maintenance of the group and the site. I can't think of a better or fairer way to do it.

We intend to have few or no paid members as staff at the site, and hope to do the majority of improvements ourselves. We should have a sufficient number of knowledgeable folks to design and implement the necessary facilities and improvements, and enough strong backs and qualified leaders to get the job(s) done. Since we are all working towards our own survival, I think we can pretty much guarantee to ourselves that the work will be done right.

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What If I Want to Leave the Group?

Members can withdraw from the group at any time, and will be fully reimbursed for their initial fees and annual fees (less taxes, which are use fees). Part of the initial agreement will be that each existing member will cough up their share to buy out a member who decides to leave the group, within 60 days of the member request to withdraw. The other part of the agreement is that withdrawing members accept the 60 day wait for their reimbursement.

For instance: The previous 520 members experience the loss of 2 members. Each member has paid $673.08, so far, so the remaining 518 members have 60 days to come up with (673.08 x 2) $1,346.16 รท 518, or $2.60 each. I doubt they'll need that much time, but there it is. The 60 days is to provide for the possibility of a deep schism resulting in the splitting of a large number of members from the group. It will give us time to come up with the buy out price or sell the site.

IMPORTANT: Withdrawing members will get exactly what they put in to the group (less taxes) and will not realize a profit or gain from capital gains or appreciation or interest of any kind. Nor will they be reimbursed for depreciation of the dollar, labor, services rendered, or any other weird ideas. Any profits from the forced dissolution and/or sale of the group/site will be used towards the establishment of a new site for remaining members. You cannot and will not use membership as a speculative profit-making scheme. Our attorneys will see to that. If they don't, the rest of us will. This is not a threat, merely a promise.

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What About My Family & Friends?

Members' immediate family become secondary (adults 16+) and tertiary (children 15-) members. There are no additional fees for large families and no reduction for small or no family. This shouldn't be a problem. All Primary Members are expected to be rational, empathetic human beings who realize that another member's immediate family IS himself or herself.

HOWEVER, "immediate family" means:

1.) Primary member and spouse and any dependent children 21 years of age or under,
2.) Primary member and significant other of the opposite sex, and any dependent children,
3.) Primary member and DEPENDENT parents (with or without PM immediate family)

Grandparents are ALWAYS considered immediate family of any Primary member.

Primary Members' adult children (21+) must have their own Primary membership.

Obviously, there are ways to abuse this system. It's a matter of (and show of) integrity to see to it that each Primary Member applies the guidelines appropriately. Primary members are personally and financially responsible for the conduct and actions of their immediate family members. They will be expected to see to it that their families behave, at all times, IAW group standards.

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What About Firearms?

Firearms are a matter of personal choice. You do not have to own a firearm to join the group. You simply have to accept the fact that others will, and will probably be using them for sport (in good times) or hunting (in good or bad times) and possibly in defense of themselves, you, and yours (in extremely bad times). You'll have to accept that fact and deal with it in a personal and private way. Anti-gun movements and disturbances will not be tolerated, and will be grounds for censure and possibly involuntary (forced) withdrawal from the group.

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What About Race & Religion?

Any and all beneficent religions will be allowed, provided they are not intrusive or intolerant of other religions. No devil worship or religions advocating forced/voluntary submission to pain, degradation or destruction will be allowed. No religions advocating hate or abolishment of other races or beneficent religions will be allowed. Atheism is okay as long as you don't bug people about it. In short, don't get in other peoples faces about your particular beliefs unless you are invited to discuss them by others.

There is no race but the HUMAN RACE. Pigmentation and nationalities are like levels of sweetness in different varieties of honey. They are all good and they all come from the same source. If you have a problem with race or heritage, then you don't belong in this group. Find a different one.

HOWEVER, there will be no hyphenated Americanism in this group. If you possess the qualities to join this group, you are just plain "Americans." You cannot hold allegiances to two nations. Sooner or later there will be a conflict and you will have to choose between one or the other. Choose now and save us all a ton of grief.

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When Will the Group Be Formed?

Well, that's difficult to say. The need for a sufficient number of qualified potential members to keep costs down is the only limitation. The sooner we get enough dedicated quality folks interested, the sooner we can start. The legal formation of the group as an incorporated entity is already being undertaken and nearing finalization. I figured on 100-200 acres as a minimum acceptable site size. This really is not alot, when you consider forage, open air agriculture, wildlife conservation, water and mineral rights, woodlots, mines & caves, the terrain itself, and the number of members utilizing the site. In fact, there will probably be a need for much more land, but I figured we could find a site bordering park or BLM lands to increase the use area.

The current interested potential members have pretty much all expressed a desire to start earlier and smaller. We would have to find a smaller site and start with substantially less capital, while each share would be proportionately greater.

I do not want some members to carry a larger share of the finances with a view towards equalization as new members are added to the group. What if things got bad before equalization could occur? This could create some hard feelings within the group and lead to the one thing we must avoid at all cost. Survival of a major collapse or catastrophe will require a team effort without any animosity between members. If we start warring about who paid how much for what, the whole thing will collapse.

Even the best of folks can turn ugly if they feel they are being cheated. Witness the [7/98] call for voluntary contributions to this web site. I made no demands for payment - and even limited the amount I accepted from any one individual - yet I got at least one derogatory response per day questioning my integrity and demanding an accounting for site maintenance costs. It's an ugly world, when it comes to money. We need to keep everything on an open, justifiable, and equal footing from the very start.

So, the site won't be picked or purchased and the group won't be formally started until we have enough folks to carry equal shares and still pull it off. If the majority of the group wishes to begin smaller and sooner, then we will. Hopefully we will be able to expand as membership expands.

We don't KNOW there will ever be a need for this. Growing up in the 60's, it looked like we all NEEDED bomb shelters. Many folks actually built them at great cost in cash and family discord. The bombs never came (thank God) and the majority of the shelters have fallen into disuse. At least, with this site, if nothing ever happens, we won't feel like total fools. We'll have a place we can visit and use as long as we retain membership. There will be plenty of space for camping, hunting, fishing, sporting and learning new things. We will have developed a network of friends and like-minded acquaintances. Considering that I have a good 50 years left in me (knock on wood), I think it's a pretty good deal either way.

In short, it's all a question of interest and qualified applicants. If we all would start looking for people that we thought were "right" for the group, and each of us found 10 new, qualified members, we could get this thing going fairly quickly. Just remember that the folks you pick may be the folks that you have to spend the rest of your lives with. You may have to put your life in their hands - and theirs in yours. If you don't think you could do that, then don't recruit them. Listen to and trust your instincts. Have them read this FAQ and discuss it with them. If they don't come across as "kosher," then let them pass. NEVER try to "talk someone in to it." If they can't see the value of joining on their own, then they will never be satisfied and will be a source of derision within the group. We don't need that.

I know there are good people out there waiting to see what we do and how we start up the group. The problem is, we will never start up the group if everyone is sitting on the fence watching and waiting for the group to form. If you think this is the right thing for you, jump in with both feet and let us know.

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What Can I Use The Site For?

Initially, the site won't be good for much other than meeting and interacting with fellow members. There is, however, the immediate benefit of having a place to congregate before, during and after an event, as well as recreational use.

Members will have 365 day access to the site without reservation or notice. Personal sites will be assigned, initially, for camping, storage and future development of permanent shelters (if not already there). Members can trade sites with other members who wish to trade with them.

Camping, fishing, hiking, boating, climbing, caving, and just plain exploring will all be allowed. Firearms use will be restricted to safe and designated areas. Hunting will be forbidden on the site lands, but will probably be plentiful in adjacent areas. We want the indigenous wildlife to view our site as a "safe haven" for conservative use after an event. You can use the site for a base camp for year round licensed hunting on adjacent lands IAW local and state laws. Members will be solely responsible for themselves and their family members, their safety and conduct, while pursuing recreational activities at/on the site.

We will encourage members to post and conduct classes on survival and technical training, so there may be some immediate educational benefits as well.

To be continued - work in progress...

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Where Will The Site Be Located?

Currently, we are looking at all properties meeting the criteria listed in the proposal page and located XXXX. [Deleted]

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What If the Government Orders Us to Disband?

Personally, I think this is just a tad bit paranoid, but it should be discussed. In the event of a catastrophe where the government orders survival groups to disband, turn in their supplies, and either report to their homes of record or a central collection point, there'd be little that we could do about it. The only valid tactic is to remain remote and low-profiled enough to be "forgotten about" by the government. No use in grumbling about theft of private property by the government if you've been paying income taxes all your life. The government takes what it wants, when it wants it, and they are too big a bully to spit in the eye.

However, since we are setting the group up as a non-profit research and development group providing a very real service - not only to our members but to the world at large - chances are that we will not be viewed in the same vein as the more radical groups falling under the survivalist connotation. Who can say? In the end, we will have educated ourselves and prepared ourselves and our friends to the best extent possible. Either way, we will have benefited by our actions.

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Who the Heck Is Meg Raven?

Who Cares? Biographies are a boring, self-aggrandizing, waste of time (in my opinion). What you need to know about me you can better learn by viewing the web site, reading my editorials, this FAQ, and the plans for the CSRS Group.

For those of you who simply MUST know more, send me an Email and ask whatever it is you want to know.

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