Bra FAQ #2: Bra making Tutorial This is the long-awaited alt.sewing Bra FAQ, now seperated from the Underwire FAQ, and into several sections itself, due to their increasing sizes. In some of them you will find addresses for bra patterns I have so far found with mention of mail order places that carry supplies, with as much detail as people could muster. (There has been much discussion on alt.sewing about whether or not people like underwires, see a use for them, need them; so since I need them, I've taken a keen interest in what's what with underwires. Call me selfish. I have tried to confine that mostly to the Underwire FAQ, which see.) There are now five files in all: Underwire FAQ: Wherein the author has completely nerded out on underwires. Contains some mail order lingerie supplies addresses. See Bra FAQ #3 for more. Bra FAQ #1: Bra Fit & Fashion Covered a discussion on people's complaints about bras and how to measure for proper fit, and other things in those areas. Bra FAQ #2: Bra Making Tutorial Covers what I have learned about how to design and sew a bra, with contributions from the net. Bra FAQ #3: Places to look for lingerie & lingerie supplies Will cover further the issues of finding the supplies for sewing lingerie, including mailorder bra patterns, lingerie supplies, and mailorder bra sources. It includes some addresses for swimwear, as well. (One so far.) Bra FAQ #4: Bra Fabric & Anatomy Will contain some discussion on specifications for bra fabric like the RTW ones are made from, and some pointers to finding it (see Bra FAQ #3). There is also a stretch chart that people can make up themselves to check the stretch of fabric and elastics and a discussion in one section on not only lingerie fabric descriptions, but on my approximations on bra anatomy. I welcome anyone's comments and additions, but I don't have the facilities to maintain this as an automatic posting (I *might* be able to set this up). I hope people will find _and_make_ these a useful set of files. Babs Woods babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com, or babs@funhouse.com ========================== Bra FAQ #2: Bra making Tutorial Covers what I have learned about how to design and sew a bra, with contributions from the net. A moment of review about: What makes a properly fitting bra? [-- babs] ========================== [For a bra cup size comparison chart, see Bra FAQ #1. It compares across several brands' measurement charts from catalogues.] ========================== From: coeli@aol.com (Coeli) Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Date: 1 Jul 1994 07:34:02 -0400 Subject: Dsigning bras Have you noticed the many articles about bras in the papers and magazines lately? Women are wearing bras again. Doctors are insisting because they feel it is better for health. Gynocologists are telling our daughters to wear underwire bras, though they are not large. A costume designer told me that she had no idea that a large side panel was important to the fit of the bra and for the look of the clothes. Since she is an architect by training, I am urging her to design the better bra. Are any of you designing the better bra? Mimi ================================================ Notes on alteration of cup size It is most advisable to first copy the pattern pieces out and not use the original to alter your pattern. The below book has a master pattern and the pattern pieces are copied out (I prefer to use coated freezer paper and some different colored sharpie permanent markers for this), and the copies only are altered. Please don't alter the originals, at some point you will need them in the original form and if you haven't used copies you'll be stuck. This is copied without permission from Kwik Sew's Swim & Action Wear book, by Kerstin Martensson. I felt it was such a good and concise description that it was important to include the text at least. I'm assuming that readers either know or can look up the "slash and spread method" of pattern alteration. This is a good book, by the way, I got mine through Keiffer's Lingerie Supply, who carry a lot of Kwik Sew patterns that can be ordered from them from the Kwik Sew catalogue by mail order along with a lot of swim suit and lingerie supplies. Martensson writes: "If your bust size is larger than a C-cup, more length and width is needed on the front. Adjust the front pattern as follows: If making a one piece swimsuit or a leotard, draw a line, perpendicular to the center front halfway between the notch and the underarm [on the pattern]. Spread the pattern apart 1/2" (1.3cm) for each cup size; for a D-cup spread the pattern apart 1/2" (1.3Cm), for a DD-cup spread the pattern apart 1" (2.5Cm) etc. Now, draw a line from this line to the armhole [...]. Cut on this line to the armhole and spread apart 1/2" (1.3) for each cup size. Draw a smooth line at the side seam. This adjustment will allow more gathers at the side seam over the bust." Martensson's example Princess Line suit is the armhole type: "To adjust the princess line swimsuit, lengthen the front, using the same procedures. To lengthen the side panel cut the pattern from the princess line seam, stopping 1/4" (6mm) from the side seam. Spread the pattern piece apart the same amount as on the front. Add 1/2" (1.3cm) for each cup size to the side seam, tapering the line to the waist and the armhole." What I found useful was applying these instructions to the cups of the bikini pattern included in the master pattern, the instructions for making which are on pages 37-40 of the book. Since this is a bra, this then is how to alter a bra. This was an epiphany for me, since I have such an impossible-to-fit size. The larger the cup size, the more places you have to slash. Slash the cup pattern piece from the cup seam to a 1/4" from either the top of the upper cup, or the frame (band) seam of the cup. Don't cut the pattern piece completely apart, because you're trying to preserve the shape and dimensions of the cup where it will be sewn into the frame or band. Pivot and slide by pinning down one side of the slash and opening it up to the 1/2" per cup size. Going from C to F [scream] meant a difference of 1-1/2". This means I have to use two slashes, one on each side of the cup pieces (one on left, the other on right of center) and cut them on a roughly 30 degree angle or something (I didn't use a protractor, but don't employ a severe angle for this). This is like dividing up bustline dart control. If you use more than one slash, divide the amount you need to adjust by by the number of slashes you use. (It occurs to me I probably could get away with using only one slash, but I think the result might be too pointy a cup shape, as it might end up being harder to correct the curve along the cup seams. I'll have to try that out.) Also, find a center point between the two split sides on the pattern piece and divide it evenly on either side of the cut slash line for more evenness in the result. It is important to do this to *both* cup pieces, upper and lower, to distribute the size change evenly between them. Seperate along the slashes whatever the adjustment number divides to. Line the slash marks up with regards to each other between the upper and lower cup pieces. Draw a straight line ending 1/4" on each from the cup seam and cut the pattern to there. Follow above directions. Redraw the cup and add the corrected seam curve on both cup pieces, with reference to the original curve. This same method should work for reduction, in reverse. (I guess that could be called "slash and compress".) I am investigating where to get the swimsuit cups my size requires to line any bra-part to a swimsuit (bikini or tank, you need to form at least an inside support system of some degree). I know Stretch&Sew has recently begun to sell them, apparently they had stopped and are now offering them again on a trial basis, so I'm going to order some. They have them (as of June, 1996) in their current catalogue with or without underwires already attached. ================================================ Notes On Bra Constructing From: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com, or babs@funhouse.com (Babs Woods) (July 24, 1994) My own notes on bra construction procedures (see below if applying underwire): I've studied some of the RTW bras I've bought for the 'Order of Operations' (and you thought Algebra was totally useless, didn't you!) used in organizing their construction. What they've done is to construct the cups, if it's a 2pc chestband, construct that; then construct the bra. These notes assume a center back hook & eye closure, my chosen styles don't use front closures. Some people's body types allow this, not mine. Thus, my basic instructions really only cover back closures and you're on your own for front closures, but it's mostly the same. If anyone has further construction instructions to add, please do. I'd like any refinements, tips, and comments on what people have found work for them. 1. Bra Construction: a. Build cups. b. Build chestband. c. Make or re-cover straps, finish ends. Attach the hardware. d. Sew cups to chestband. 2. Add the elastics as follows: a. Chestband elastic (apply, fold over and stitch down). b. Back elastic (DO NOT FOLD OVER YET). (See step e, below.) c. Armhole-to-front elastic (DO NOT FOLD OVER YET). (See step e, below.) d. Center front neckline elastic or stay taping (apply, fold over and stitch down). e. If the armhole and back are one line to the closure, apply, fold over and stitch in place. (This supercedes steps b and c.) 3. Straps: You may want to put the bra and the end of the strap right sides together and stitch across with a narrow seam, to make a finished edge. Fold the finished edge over. Then sew the straps on in back by folding the back and armhole elastics over the strap ends and stitching down from the center back edeg to the top of the elastic at the strap, and then sewing it down to the raw strap end. If you can keep the needle in the fabric then criss-cross the strap end to the edge of the back elastic, fold down the armhole elastic, and continue stitching to the end of the top of the cup and off. Sew across the raw edge of the cup top point to reduce fraying. Fold this over and attach the strap ring to the cup top at the point. (This all assumes you have these features to the pattern you're using. Otherwise, use the straps and hardware you chose for your pattern. I happen to choose styles with these features.) 4. Adding Underwires: If you're adding underwires, sew the channeling down so it also acts as seam tape on the cup-to-chestband seams. You'll want the inner curve stitching to be along the cup edge seam stitches, as seen from the garment right side (like RTW), and the outer curve stitching to be about 1/4" away, on the chestband side of the cups. Everything should also lie smoothly when sewn. Using a zipper foot may help with the edgestitching. Starting just in from the garment edge, edgestitch the inner curve down first, leaving some channeling past the garment edge free as a seam allowance. Stretch as you sew. Edgestitch the outer curve down, being careful not to make the stitching too narrow for the wires to fit through so you get them inside. Stretch as you sew. Insert the wires. Sew across the channeling at about 1/2" from the garment edge, trim away excess. Fold the channeling down along the edgestitching and stitch in place as closely to the edgestitching as you can along the channeling seam allowance. (This is not the way I had originally been doing it, this is much easier.) Be careful not to catch the underwire, you'll break your needle. 5. Back Closure: Attach the closure to the center back, and you're done. (Hooks on the right, eyes on the left.) For an ordinary bra, use purchased closure. For a nursing bra with an extended back closure, either buy the extender readymade (See Calico Cottage (above)), or make your own. To make your own nursing bra extender hook & eye back closure: Use hook & eye closure tape cut to desired width. Cut two sets of eyes and one of hooks (you do end up wasting the hooks). Mark them for position. Fold open one set of the eyes at the attachment flap end and insert the finished edge of the other inside right up to the flap stitching on the first, carefully lining up the two sets of eyes so they'll all be on one line, and leaving the eyes above the flap of fabric. Pin in place. Very carefully stitch this in place as close to the eyes as possible. You may have to stitch one side of the flap down at a time. Use the open far end to attach to the left side of the center back like the usual closure. Someone recently asked if anyone was building a better bra, in the course of the discussion (sometimes heated) about making bras and underwire and the difficulty of finding supplies and so on. This is what I've been doing, just so *I'll* have some good bras to wear. One thing I've discovered is that I may well be able to nip down a deeper underwire size and retip to suit my needs, so things are looking better, after all. I may be able to make bathing suits right this summer, after all, for me. -babs ======================== Designing A better Bra I'm [babs] currently [summer, 1994] working on a 3-pc cup bra cup design which seems to distribute support much better for me than the more usual 2-pc baseball cups on the market and in patterns. This is made with fabric with roughly 25% stretch to it (heavier nylon tricot, 30 to 45 denier tricot) similar to, if not the same as, that used in making RTW bras. [Use the 40 gage, 45 denier 100% nylon tricot.] With the current extended dance-mix version of this heat wave I've lately been thinking about making some halter tops. The first thing I've had to do was to convert from a pattern which is built assuming some fabric stretch to one I could use with woven fashion fabrics, like a printed broadcloth, cut on bias. What I did was to put on my trial bra made from the tricot, and then to check the fit against a fabric with even less stretch, having my husband measure the fit as I wore it. I then altered a copy of the pattern to fit for wovens. I haven't had a chance to make a woven trial, but this would seem to solve the conversion question on such a fitted garment. Measure how it fits, not just the pattern. Another alteration was to add a chestband back (mine is of two pieces) to the pattern pack that has an extended back to form a tie closure in back. This is an attempt to solve the problem of changes in chestband size that multiple eyes in hook & eye closures is used for, while maintaining the halter-not-bra style. Next I have to figure out a design for a front tie closure and add that piece to the envelope. Some day I'll be able to alter bathing suit tops to halter-top-bikini tops. Hmm. Maybe this year. I don't have the body for it yet, but it's too hot to care! Anyone have any halter stories, tips, or patterns to add? [I immediately found one at KMart or Ames the next day. I didn't buy it, only studied it. It's a sort of bustier halter top made from a light weight broadcloth, with a front snap closure of snap tape, some in metal, some in plastic, and I think one had had the snaps applied so the rings would be ornamental down the center front length. It may be intended to be waist length, I didn't try any on (cups were too small), the bottom elastic appears only at the hem, the rest of the elastic being on the armhole and across the back edges. It has a two-piece cup with a line of boning coming down from the cup at the underwire to the waist at about the princess seam line, a line of boning down where the side seam should be (I don't remember seeing a side seam, though, so the front and back side may be cut from one piece), a flat felled seam along the back princess seam line, with the center back panel being cut on the fold. The front is bra cut, not cut any lower than a bra, not a half-cup push-up style or anything, more modest than that. The back is cut straight across at what I think is roughly just below shoulder blade height, but I didn't fit any on, so I don't know. It has adjustable straps, but the front of the strap is formed by a fabric strap like a sundress, then the strap ring is attached, then an elasticized adjustable strap (the original looked to be 1/2" self-fabric strapping, used as an elastic casing and run through the slides and the ring). I took these ideas home in my head and altered them to suit my own preference, so mine will likely closely resemble this, but with a 3-piece cup (once you get the bottom curve and the cup dimensions down you can play with the shape if you want to), and more stable adjustable straps. I'd probably play with making the closure more secure, use two layers or thicker fabric, but other than that not much changes. Some construction details: After the garment was built, the channeling seems to have been done by laying the front boning channel in, then the underwire channeling over it. This prevents the end of the boning slipping out and poking the wearer. The boning also had some room to move in, maybe 1/2" vertically, both there and on the side seam. Then the elastics went on over the channeling and the boning and underwire went in. I suppose the long front closure was last, but I don't know. It could just as easily be done as I've detailed elsewhere for attaching underwire channeling over the elastics.] ========================= Sept. 20, 1994 What I've learned about how to develop your own bra patterns (so far). [- babs] (A "What I did on my summer vacation" type essay.) I've been corresponding a lot recently with people about making their own bras and have found myself saying a lot of the same things in my messages. It occurred to me that this is within the FAQ realm, since it's coming up so often. Herein my attempt to put in one place what I've learned not just about how to pull together a pattern in general, but more specifically, how I have gotten to the point where I am about to freeze the development phase on the current bra pattern (the three-piece cup pattern I've been working on for months and some people have read about in some of my posts). [Don't be fooled, it's xmas, '94, and I'm still wrestling this thing to the ground and losing, but I'm an odd size and it was some time before I realized that not only was I wearing a size smaller cup than needed I was working from a minimizer style, so I really had it all wrong in some key areas. Try not to fall into this trap, too. -- babs] First I had to learn to sew and then to draft, and then to draft patterns. I recommend people take even a beginner's mechanical drafting course, like the one I had in high school. In the past few years my confidence as a sewer has really grown, so has my frustration with poorly designed, ill-fitting bras. I've been hearing from a lot of people in the same boat, but who also express a lot of doubt that they could ever tackle this themselves. I'm self-taught and if I can do this, I think the rest of you can as well. Basically this is a crash course in how I get a pattern together, as applied to making a bra, which is also a special problem. Bra design is pretty intimidating, I must admit, but I'm so sick of the discomfort-to-outright-pain that I'm willing to fumble for a while. So, ladies, are you with me? You will need: a measuring tape a french curve coated freezer paper or other pattern alteration/copying medium (15-18" wide min.) ballpoint pens a clean, flat surface with a light color (white is best) indelible markers of more than one color a clear quilter's rule paper-cutting scissors 3M magic tape or equivalent a well-fitting bra a notepad a ballpoint pen muslin Find a bra that fits well, especially in the cups, since these are so hard to get right. Be honest about your proper size, no matter how you feel about it. If you're not sure of your correct size, see elsewhere about fitting. You want a bra that fits properly to your body, not to your sense of denial about your body. You'll be uncomfortable and unhappy, if it doesn't fit right. Try to find more than one cup style you like in full cup styles, although making notes on the various styles and how much coverage they give and where they fall is important, too. Next, find or figure out what the chestband should fit like (see elsewhere), and try to find a bra that maybe almost fits in the cups but the chestband fits well. However you come to parts of a bra that fits well, copy it. (Those of you lucky people who can find good fitting bras easily, just copy what you have. Your job is easier than mine.) Lay the bra out carefully and trace around it. If it fits well but it's either an extra copy bought for the purpose, or falling apart, rip all of the seams, all of the elastic where practical and copy the pieces. If you have a T-pin board, tack the pieces in place over your freezer paper very carefully and copy them. You might want to fold back the seam allowances to get only the pieces, because seam allowances can be added later. Mark the pattern pieces as needing seam allowances if they do. Be brutal. If the bra has an underwire, take it out and save it, take out the channeling, too. Flatten out the wire again as well as you can, and trace it. Note its depth, width, thickness, and composition, on that drawing. Compare it to the chart elsewhere in this FAQ series and note the size so that you can order more. If you have complaints about what doesn't fit anywhere, make notes of these (I often jot them down on the pattern pieces themselves, although usually on a copied one). Be anal-retentive about things like grain lines, and percent stretch, these can give you a clue as to how to distribute force and support better so that the copies will fit better. Give the fabric some real Paddington Hard Stares to see which way the grain goes, this is harder with the knits to really see. Note the fabrics used (lace, stretch lace, lycra, 100% cotton, cotton/poly, 100% nylon tricot, etc.). Note how long the elastic seems to be (easier with a new one you haven't worn or washed yet). What widths of elastic are used where? How long do they seem to be? What percent stretch does the elastic have? How much shorter than the fabric edge is the elastic? In some areas, such as across the back or some bottom edges, this is often a 1:1 ratio. Some waists, on for example a longline halter-style bra like the one I've been wrestling with or the powernet one I have on order, may use a waistband elastic of plushbacked lingerie elastic 1", 1.5", 2" wide. RTW may use an elastic with different tensile properties to what you can supply yourself with, so try changing the % of elastic you use to recreate the fit of the rtw by adding or subtracting how long the elastic you cut is for the application by that percentage difference in stretch. In a woven bra or halter or whatever I would recommend also tailoring the garment so that you have breathing ease and making up for the snugness needed with the length of elastic used across the bottom edge. I think breathing ease is about 1/2" to 3/4", but go with what is comfortable while still being closely enough tailored. [Jan. 23, 1995: I'm in the process of making a set of related bra and bustier patterns for woven shirting weight fabric based on a princess line bodice to a favorite dress. It has the right seams for the boning and designs I want. I built a copy of the bodice in muslin and wore a good fitting bra underneath when I fitted it. I then traced as carefully and accurately as possible the lines of the bra and my waist placement. Then I copied my markings onto a copy of the pattern and copied a new set of pieces by comparing the muslin and the pattern. I haven't had time to take it further than that, but once you have the basic bodice you should be able to make the bustier, merry widow, bras you want from it with some work. --babs] Another note about elastics: the chestband elastics on bras *seem* to run about 9-11" shorter than the chestband size (in my experiments, anyway), so a 34" chestband seems to call for about a 23-1/2"-25" elastic, and is typically in my experience 1/2", 5/8", or even 3/4" wide. Experiment, as YMMV. Armhole or armhole-back elastic seems to run about 1-1/2" shorter than the garment edge measures and is usually 3/8" or 1/2" wide. These are all of plush-backed lingerie elastics. At all stages, measure measure measure measure measure. I cannot stress this enough. Check those measurements first against the original pattern or item, and then against a copy that you're altering. In bras especially, check the fit of the test bras against a bra that fits well. To do this, I often put a good one on, or a poor one, and judge it against improving on complaints. I'll sometimes take freezer paper and an indelible marker or a ballpoint pen and tuck the paper into the cup side to draw the finished cup edge and then where I want it to fall. I then measure and copy that and true it as I tape it onto the copy the current test was made from. Then I can make another test bra from that, and so on until it works right. In an odd size like mine, this is taking a lot of tests, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't work the first time. It ought to be much easier now that I have the correct size down, too. I have yet to master designing cups from blank paper and a pen. Since I know of no method for making a bra sloper, I shamelessly copy what I need and then alter that to fit what I want. If anyone has a method of developing a bra sloper, I'm all ears. Those of you who get good enough at this to do so, do so, but post about it so we can all do it. Until I get better at it I'll have to copy and alter. One way to do alterations in design I've begun to play with is to make up a bra that fits well, once you've established a pattern, and then to mark it with a pen where you want the new style's lines to fall. Alter a copy of your pattern from that, add 1/4" seams, and follow the above methods to construct a new one. Start up a collection of bra patterns, some of which you'll find hidden as the top of a unitard or swimsuit pattern, or as a bikini top, or something. Collect them in more than one cup size and chestband size, in multisized envelopes and different styles whenever possible. Compare to these and grade these up and down, or use various of the designed lines as templates for what you're trying to acheive. I'm not sure that copying of this nature is any sort of crime, most of us are doing this out of desperation and frustration with the Garment Industry and trying to make custom-fitted bras for our individual selves since we can't find them in the stores anywhere, so we're not too likely to sell our custom fit patterns. Once you get a feel for the lines of bras this will continue to get easier, and you'll be more apt to spot or design something interesting. Yes, it's intimidating, no it's not impossible to do ourselves. It takes some work, stubborness and an idea of what you want in fit, style and looks, once you know your correct size (I cannot stress that enough, either). Elsewhere in this and the Underwire FAQ are listings for some sources of supplies and some patterns. Hope this helps. -babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com; babs@funhouse.com ============================ Nursing bras: Newsgroups: alt.sewing Subject: making nursing bras Date: July 24, 1994 On the subject of "has anyone been designing a better bra", further, and to tie in with others in the part of the bra discussion on nursing bras, someone mentioned the brand name of the nursing bra I had used. I went, for what must be the millionth time, and looked at the one good one of the two I had originally bought, and found that it is: Leading Lady Nursing Bra, Style 488 (36G) (100% cotton single-knit (t-shirting) in two layers throughout, flaps, cups and chestband) I then measured the underwire: 6-3/4" wide by 5-1/2" deep. The wire it actually uses measures up against Sew Sassy's 921-1 44B/42C/40D/38DD (7" X 4-1/2"), measured without opening up the garment but laying out wires until the one that comes closest to a match. This one matches exactly, but the size designation is much bigger. Note that the garment is sized as 36G. This comes to a rough translation of 38DD/36E-F, but it's the right physical size. Anyway, why am I writing this? For a good 6+ years I've been trying to figure out how to make a nursing bra (and countless years before then I had set my sights on just making a proper-fitting bra to begin with). I'm having some success with not only finding underwires to use without recycling, but with a pattern I originally copied from RTW and have been playing with recently. I then went over to my one surviving nursing bra and made the one alteration to the ordinary bra pattern envelope I hadn't made before. In a previous post earlier today I wrote about working with a 3-pce cup bra design, well this one has a roughly baseball cup (if I understand what others have meant by this correctly), and a cut out portion (which is often done in lace, btw) that comes down from the top of the upper cup most of the way to the bottom of the curve on the cup lower section. Made out of less-stretchy material, this provides some lateral support in the center front. I took the upper cup and this piece and oriented them to overlap the seam allowances, then copied each piece. I then studied both how the original nursing bra felt and fits when worn and reviewed my complaints about its fit when I was nursing. Then I compared this to the way the current bra trial fits and feels and where I had always wanted to have the inner flap actually lay in this nursing bra. I redrew this to suit what I had always wanted (I love being able to do this!) and made the necessary alterations to the side seam of the armhole so it would be independent with its own elastic. I think I may eventually stick this in its own envelope with its own instructions, but another thing I'm adding when I have some more time is either an extended center back or instructions to use extra eyes on the center back, so it can be adjusted in back as well as in the cups with the vertical hooks to the upper cup top. Put the strap and ring in backwards, so that the ring is in the back, too. Maybe I'll get a chance to finish putting this together in a day or so. -babs ============================== This is what I have so far. Again, I welcome people's additions and comments. Email me at: babs@jfwhome.funhouse.com, or babs@funhouse.com Happy sewing! -babs woods (If all else fails: Babs Woods 958 Mass. Ave. Boxboro, MA 01719 )