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Flint & Steel
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Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:39:56 -0600
From: Benjamin Pressley
Subject: Re: Flint
Supplies
Stephen Passwater wrote: Where is the best place
to find flint? And is there anyplace that commercially sells it?(In chunks that
is, not in a fire starter kit or anything like that).
If you are using it for flint & steel fire
making you don't necessarily have to use genuine flint. Any stone that is
volcanically produced and high in silica will work. Here are a list of suppliers
I know about though for flint and other knappable material. I also have some
pieces (if you just want to make flint & steel fire with them), for $3 a
piece (ppd):
Billy Joe Sheldon, 133 E. 4th Ave., Springfield,
CO 81073, Phone: (719) 523-4434
Sells alIbates flint.
Dan Stueber, 5009 N. Girard, Portland, OR 97203
Sells scribes (For signing work).
Flintworks, Scott K. Silsby, 6604 Placid St.,
Falls Church, VA 22043, Phone: (703) 533-0056
Scott is the best teacher and tool maker when it comes to greenstone tools. He
also teaches workshops in flintknapping, bow and arrow making and sells
greenstone and greenstone tools. Greenstone sells for $2.00 lb. ($30.00 min.
order), axe and adze blanks for $10.00 each (prices do not include UPS).
Jim Regan, 23 107 Erskin St., NE, Bethel, MN
55005, Phone: (612) 462-5568
Sells Brazillian agate slabs, percussion and flaking tools.
Native Way, P.O. Box 159, Washington, Mississippi
39190
Sells stone, tools and more.
Nemec Stone Co., Box 178A, Jarrell, TX 76536,
Phone: (512) 746-5221(evenIngs)
Sells several varieties of Texas flints.
Neolithics, Carl Ratzat, 1530 B St., Springfield,
OR 97477
Sells obsidian and dacite.
Richardsonís Rec. Ranch, Ltd., Gateway Rt. Box
440, Madras, OR 97741
Sells stone.
T&J Copper Supplies, 1411 Blue Smoke, San
Antonio, TX 78231
Copper supplies
Vision Maker Co., 116 Mt. Carmel Dr., Natchez
Mississippi 39120
Sells tools, stone, reproductions.
Benjamin Pressley
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:18:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Tom Elpel
Subject: Re: Steel
Strikers
Stephen,
I teach about fifty kids each year to start flint & steel fires. My favorite
steel striker is the edge of a common file. I collect a couple dozen ski files
(from the local ski shops) every winter and break them into 3-4 inch pieces with
a hammer so I can give each child their own set. All files work, but the best
ones have smooth edges. You can grind the edge ribs off with a grinder if you
want.
Once you have a steel striker it is easy to find
workable "flint" rocks. Just pick up rocks everywhere you go and
strike the steel against a sharp edge and watch for sparks. You will be
surprised at what all will work. Any rocks with a high silica content will work,
*except glass* (natural and artificial) which is too brittle. The edge of the
rock has to be sharp to shear off little bits of metal from the file. The sparks
are globs of burning metal.
Always Peace,
Thomas J. Elpel
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:01:25 -0600
From: Benjamin Pressley
Subject: More
Steel Strikers
I'm convinced it is the quality of steel. Hard,
hi-carbon steel throws good 'hot' orange sparks. I can use the same good fire
steel on many different 'flints' (I use that term loosely) and get the same
orange sparks. I have used quartz, rhyollite, various cherts and lots of other
stones. In fact I take a piece of rhyollite with me to the flea market and test
old worn out files for their hardness. If they throw good orange sparks, I buy
them, bring them home, break them into shorter pieces, grind one edge smooth -
and have plenty of fire steels to pass around.
Benjamin Pressley
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:48:59 +0000
From: Dr AF Bourbeau
Subject: Iron
pyrites and flint or quartz
Benjamin Pressley wrote:
Have you tried Iron Pyrite and quartz? If you
have, tell me more. I have not had any luck with it. My guess is that the Iron
Pyrite is not hard enough to produce sufficiently hot sparks.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but my
understanding of the theory behind flint and steel sparks is that, the flint
cuts off a piece of metal quickly - which generates heat and sends a piece of
hot metal flying, which is the spark. Different flints are harder and sharper
and will send a larger piece of metal flying, (ie bigger spark).
If all this theory is true (my unverified
assumption), then the reason iron pyrite will be so hard to use is that the
metal pieces in the pyrite are too small, and the strike with flint or quartz
cannot pull off a large enough piece of metal to cause a good spark.
Anyone know more about this or care to comment
about this theory?
Thanks for sharing,
AndrÈ
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:28:11 -0500 (EST)
From: merv martin
Subject: Iron
Pyrite and quartz
I have tried quartz and iron pyrite. It gave good
sparks on the bench. (read as, not in a survival situation, but in a nice safe
shop.) Iron pyrite does seem to have a "rind" of weathered material on
the outside. The inner stuff works better, at least for me. Now, the best result
I had with pyrite was with a large mass of small crystals, rather than one or
two large crystals. It seemed to help if the quartz face was fresh too. (I
dropped my striker and it broke!) Oh, I did strike the iron pyrite with the
quartz, not the other way around. Don't know why, just did.
take Care,
Merv
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:25:22 -0600
From: Benjamin Pressley
Subject: Spark
Coloration
I'm not too sure about the size of the sparks
being the key factor, here, although you are right about it being the flint's
job to shear off pieces of steel. I'm not sure of all the science on this, but I
do look for orange sparks when testing a fire steel. Yellow sparks indicate too
soft a steel and usually are not hot enough to do the job. On the other hand,
you may have worked with some 'cooler' sparks for firemaking in other
techniques. So, corect me if I'm wrong.
Benjamin Pressley
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 09:30:41 +0000
Subject: Spark Color
I'm convinced that size of sparks is an important
factor! For example, although ferrorarium (sp.) is probably the best steel from
which you can scrape a spark, the small sparks caused by rubbing the ferrorarium
of a Bic lighter are not sufficient to start a fire.
Are not the orange vs yellow sparks caused by the
quality of the flint rather than the quality of the steel? Or partly so?
I may be dead wrong on this one, and I'd sure
like a metallurgist or someone else to clear this up. I'll do more research,
meanwhile if anyone has any ideas...
AndrÈ
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 23:47:06 -0800
From: Tim Rast
Subject: Historical
Reference for Iron pyrites and flint or quartz
James E. Burdine wrote:
I may be off the mark here, but I have yet to
find any reference for the use of flint and steel in the Americas before the
coming of the Europeans. I believe that hand and bow drills figured in the
lion's share of fire
You are probably right, when you say the 'lion's
share' but there *are* a few examples of percussion fire starting. Diamond
Jenness, in _Material Culture of the Copper Eskimo_ (1946:5,55) reports
observing Iron pyrites used for fire starting. I don't have the original handy,
but the source citing Jenness says that the pyrites were struck together. The
same technique -- pyrite on pyrite was also used by the Beothuk in Newfoundland
and Ingeborg Marshall, in _A History and Ethnography of the Beothuk_ (1996:302)
says:
"The Beothuk lit fires by striking two
pieces of iron pyrite together to produce sparks that would ignite bird down or
other inflammable matter. Five Beothuk burials contained iron pyrites among the
grave goods; fragments of pyrites were also recovered from several housepits on
archaeological sites. The use of metallic crystals for percussion striking was
the main method of producing fire among Algonquian speakers north of the Gulf of
St. Lawrence. Le Jeune, who described this procedure from the Montagnais in
Labrador in 1634, said that they used the down-covered skin of an eagle's thigh
to catch the sparks."
We found Iron Pyrite nodules in prehistoric
Dorset sites in the central High Arctic and they have been identified as far
starters. We experimented with them a bit in the lab and couldn't get very good
results banging them together. They had been lying more or less exposed on the
surface for 800-1000 years, (not much soil formation in the high arctic) so
perhaps the 'rind' suggested in another post was too thick? Our experiments may
also have been somewhat half-hearted as they *were* artifacts. We did try them
against a Hudson Bay steel and got showers of sparks. There were lots of
meteoric iron tools found in the same site (as well as quartz crystals) so maybe
the pyrite was stuck against this iron? It makes sense, though, that in the far
north where the only wood is driftwood to use a fire starting technology that
isn't dependant on plant fibers.
cheers,
Tim
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 06:57:53 +0000
From: Dr AF Bourbeau <bourbeau@Saglac.Qc.Ca
Subject: Native
American's flint and steel fire making tools
Pascal Chauvaux wrote: Who knows what kind
(shape) of steel striker Native Americans used?
All of the ones I've seen sold in museums and
forts in Canada, (I've toured extensively) look like a fairly square C the size
of 4 fingers with a 1/4 inch circle re-curve at the top for a better grip for
the thumb. They are about 1/4 inch wide and 1/8 inch thick.
Steel strikers were introduced to the Native
Americans by European Colonists so they used those received in trade. Steel
strikers were a common trade item and are mentioned in many early documents that
list trading inventories of expeditions. Pre-contact Native Americans naturally
had no steel implements, however it would be interesting to know at what point
blacksmithing and metalworking was developed among the Native Americans and if,
indeed, they developed any improvements or adaptations. I do not know of any but
it would be an interesting line of inquiry.
Where there any pre-contact methods used to light
fires by sparking such as iron pyrite or other minerals? And what impact did the
introduction of easier or different fire lighting methods have on pre-steel
cultures?
Here are a couple of places that may be able to
answer your questions with more authority than I
AMERICAN PEOPLES/ REGIONS RESOURCES
http://www.netgate.net/~jsd/susque.html
Native Amrican Indian -- Art, Culture, Education,
History. Science,
http://www.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk
Native America
http://www.mstm.okstate.edu/students/jjohnson2/ok-native.htm
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